The defendants' attorney, Jordan Lorence at ADF, says that of course a Christian widget-maker cannot fire an employee because he's gay. But it's different when the company or a religious charity is being forced to endorse something they don't believe, he says. "It's a very different situation when we're talking about promoting a message," Lorence says. "When it's 'We want to punish you for not helping us promote our message that same-sex marriage is OK,' that for me is a very different deal. It's compelled speech. You're using the arm of the government for punishing people for disagreeing with you."
Wednesday, June 18, 2008
Framing the Conversation: NPR Says It Better Than Me
I know that many of you who read this blog - esp. those of you who are bothered by my stance on same-sex marriage - are sure that I've been watching too much Fox News & O.D.ing on re-broadcasts of Focus on the Family.
Please read the following story, Gay Rights, Religious Liberties: A Three-Act Story, at NPR.org.
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10 comments:
What is your stance?
Jon,
Well, I like to use both legs... I find it gives me better balance.
Oh, you mean about same-sex marriage... you can look at posts from the last week or so:
http://akapastorguy.blogspot.com/2008/06/weve-been-down-this-road-before.html http://akapastorguy.blogspot.com/2008/06/framing-conversation-how-to-get.html
and get a good idea where I stand.
Yeah, I listen to NPR and even Pacifica Radio (which is more liberal than even most Democrats can handle) more than I watch Fox News. But, I've been accussed of being an O'Reilly fanboy. Go figure.
"But it's different when the company or a religious charity is being forced to endorse something they don't believe, he says."
I am uncomfortable with this statement. I have heard similar reasoning in the past from people/companies who do not "believe in" inter-racial marriage or "believe" they should have to serve minorities.
It is a fine balance indeed. Where does the government's reach end and personal choice begin? I'm not sure there is a clear answer.
Jeff,
I understand your discomfort - the difficulty is (as you point out) that it cuts both ways.
Let's use a more clear-cut sexual example: at what point could a pastor who had an affair be dismissed and sue his congregation for dismissal, saying that his personal life should have no effect on his employment status?
I'm not saying I have all the answers - or a perfect pathway for all of us to walk - but I do think that much of the discussion about same-sex marriage has devolved into a scripted exchange of yelling & finger-pointing. I'm hoping this series of posts will at least show a more reasoned approach to the discussion.
"but I do think that much of the discussion about same-sex marriage has devolved into a scripted exchange of yelling & finger-pointing."
Boy, isn't this the truth. Politics and religion are so emotionally charged that its hard to have any sort of level headed discussion involving either.
So from a larger perspective, what is your feeling on laws that may not fall in line with the teachings of the church. What is the church's responsibility?
Jeff
I've read your posts and I still don't know your stance. (That's why I asked.)
Jon (and others):
from FtC: Elaine & Puddy...
If I truly believe that any kind of sexual behavior outside of one man/one woman marriage is sinful & destructive, then if I love people, I'm going to speak up about it.
You may not like what I have to say - you may disagree violently. Heck, you may agree with me but wish I hadn't brought it up because you don't want to think about it or deal with it. But you need to understand that the motivation behind this is NOT hating homosexuals but loving people (hopefully with Christ's love) and wanting them to have the best possible shot at holiness, happiness & wholeness.
from FtC: How To Get Fired...
God created man & woman and the marriage relationship not only for our pleasure & for procreation, but also to act as a picture of His love for us... and same-sex marriage warps that picture just as surely as adultery does. We've missed the mark... we are, as the old hymn writer put it, "prone to wander."
OK, so you think it's sinful and destructive... but do you think it should be legislated? You compare it to adultery and adultery is currently legal so should same-sex marriage be legal or should they both be illegal?
Just my two cents...
The government permits adultery but doesn't give license to commit adultery or teach in a public school that it's a celebrated behavior.
That's my stance with homosexual marriage.
I'm sure Mark can say it better than I.
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